PYPI FASHION wrote: Movie critiques don't make movies. Museum curators don't create art. Music producers usually don't sing. Modeling agents don't model.
What they all generally have in common, though (with the exception of the music producers sometimes) is that they all tend to have way, way too much influence in the product, with very little to add to the product, except in their sacred (and jealously guarded!) duty as "gatekeepers." Sadly, they're generally last people who should be keeping the gate, because they have very little idea what they're doing.
La Seine by the Hudson wrote: What they all generally have in common, though (with the exception of the music producers sometimes) is that they all tend to have way, way too much influence in the product, with very little to add to the product, except in their sacred (and jealously guarded!) duty as "gatekeepers." Sadly, they're generally last people who should be keeping the gate, because they have very little idea what they're doing.
And so they sure love their "credentials"...
Well, yes and no.
To join the forums all one needs to do is create a profile and say some stuff, then be loud enough in the forums to back up said stuff the person is saying. It doesn't matter what they really did, just as long as what they want you to think they did and do comes across.
Where as in the industrys you outlined the people in them have to at least have passed some kind of compentecny level to participate or at least be good at what they do. Where as on here there is no background to anyone, and no one really had to do anything more than sign up.
Hey, I like Shu! The lashes are sexy. Incredibly overpriced, but neverless, much better than MAC. Mac lashes fail. Hard fucking core. You may as well go for the two dollar halloween ones any costume shop sells if you want to go for mac lashes http://www.shuuemura-usa.com/_us/_en/ac … ar-09.aspx
PYPI FASHION wrote: Movie critiques don't make movies. Museum curators don't create art. Music producers usually don't sing. Modeling agents don't model.
Up until recently movie critics needed to work for a publication and pass said employers standards to work - blogging took care of that.
Museum curators usually, actually pretty much always have a mfa or some higher end degree from a creditable college. They don't really just come off the street, hack up a resume, and get the job.
Music producers usually were either musicians or came from a background where they were in touch with the industry to some extent. I just can't go up to a studio (sans a lot of money) or start my own studio and expect to get attention.
A lot of the model agents I know who are successful have been around the industry for a while and are in touch with things, they don't just buy a agency to shoot porn or run a agency into the ground. Also, it's not like I could go out and start my own agency without some knowledge of what's going on.
BUT to join MM all a person needs to do is be good at writing and have great bs skills in the forums. We see this all the time with members, and no one bothers to question who they really are or what they really did or even (for the most part) look at their portfolios to see if they can back anything up.
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Also,
I don't need to be a chef to know that a mean is poor. I don't need to be a club promoter to know that a night at a bar is dead. I don't really need to be a director or producer to know that a movie sucks...
Up until recently movie critics needed to work for a publication and pass said employers standards to work - blogging took care of that.
Museum curators usually, actually pretty much always have a mfa or some higher end degree from a creditable college. They don't really just come off the street, hack up a resume, and get the job.
Music producers usually were either musicians or came from a background where they were in touch with the industry to some extent. I just can't go up to a studio (sans a lot of money) or start my own studio and expect to get attention.
A lot of the model agents I know who are successful have been around the industry for a while and are in touch with things, they don't just buy a agency to shoot porn or run a agency into the ground. Also, it's not like I could go out and start my own agency without some knowledge of what's going on.
BUT to join MM all a person needs to do is be good at writing and have great bs skills in the forums. We see this all the time with members, and no one bothers to question who they really are or what they really did or even (for the most part) look at their portfolios to see if they can back anything up.
[edit]
Also,
I don't need to be a chef to know that a mean is poor. I don't need to be a club promoter to know that a night at a bar is dead. I don't really need to be a director or producer to know that a movie sucks...
That is certainly a valid point for many things but MM comprise of a lot of many different disciplines. To my knowledge, there is no formal education for how to best apply shine to a model or how to tie a perfect knot. Many members have extensive knowledge of copyright law knowing more about the subject than the average lawyer.
It's not a matter of having the credentials to say something right. It's a matter of not saying something blatantly wrong.
Up until recently movie critics needed to work for a publication and pass said employers standards to work - blogging took care of that.
Museum curators usually, actually pretty much always have a mfa or some higher end degree from a creditable college. They don't really just come off the street, hack up a resume, and get the job.
Music producers usually were either musicians or came from a background where they were in touch with the industry to some extent. I just can't go up to a studio (sans a lot of money) or start my own studio and expect to get attention.
A lot of the model agents I know who are successful have been around the industry for a while and are in touch with things, they don't just buy a agency to shoot porn or run a agency into the ground. Also, it's not like I could go out and start my own agency without some knowledge of what's going on.
BUT to join MM all a person needs to do is be good at writing and have great bs skills in the forums. We see this all the time with members, and no one bothers to question who they really are or what they really did or even (for the most part) look at their portfolios to see if they can back anything up.
[edit]
Also,
I don't need to be a chef to know that a mean is poor. I don't need to be a club promoter to know that a night at a bar is dead. I don't really need to be a director or producer to know that a movie sucks...
The myth than bookers on the whole know anything more than how to make a phone call to a client and sent out a package should not be publicly promulgated...
La Seine by the Hudson wrote: The myth than bookers on the whole know anything more than how to make a phone call to a client and sent out a package should not be publicly promulgated...
Hey now, for some of us it's hard to make that phone call!
PYPI FASHION wrote: there is no formal education for how to best apply shine to a model or how to tie a perfect knot.
Actually there're several venues inside the BDSM community & elsewhere outside of it (in the sailing world, for example) where you can get formal instruction in knots.
The myth than bookers on the whole know anything more than how to make a phone call to a client and sent out a package should not be publicly promulgated...
Bookers are mostly good sales people with a good knowledge of their industry, just like any other salesperson should know their clients and products. There are however, legitimate model managers who guide the model's path for maximum bookings.
Actually there're several venues inside the BDSM community & elsewhere outside of it (in the sailing world, for example) where you can get formal instruction in knots.
Agreed. Those are informal education, not formal as in a university degree.
PYPI FASHION wrote: It's not a matter of having the credentials to say something right. It's a matter of not saying something blatantly wrong.
So credentials don't matter at all?
I can go move to San Fran, shoot a legit runway show (do they still have them there? your images are old... ), claim I'm in deep touch with the fashion scene, and people should believe that as long as I'm not saying anything wrong?
PYPI FASHION wrote: Bookers are mostly good sales people with a good knowledge of their industry, just like any other salesperson should know their clients and products. There are however, legitimate model managers who guide the model's path for maximum bookings.
They generally are good sales people who know their clients. To imply that they generally have an eye for fashion, photography, or even a particularly discerning eye for a special model (shockingly, unless you've been around this long enough) is really, really pushing it in most cases, however.
They are, however, extremely good at picking out every other girl that's getting hot right now. Just as every other type of gatekeeper that's extraneous to the process (ie movie critic, museum curator, etc) generally is.
La Seine by the Hudson wrote: They generally are good sales people who know their clients. To imply that they generally have an eye for fashion, photography, or even a particularly discerning eye for a special model (shockingly, unless you've been around this long enough) is really, really pushing it in most cases, however.
Well, once the business stuff is learned (which isn't really all that much), isn't it mostly about supplying a client base with a product and then looking for products to market to that client base?
I can go move to San Fran, shoot a runway show, claim I'm in deep touch with the fashion scene, and people should believe that as long as I'm not saying anything wrong?
Depends on the context and subject matter. Few subjects on MM are that academic. If you're sitting in a bar talking about beer and one person gives you opinions about 5 beers while another claims beer is best consumed after sitting out in room temperature for a week, you don't need to know the credentials of either to know which one is being stupid.
Andrew Thomas Designs wrote: Well, once the business stuff is learned (which isn't really all that much), isn't it mostly about supplying a client base with a product and then looking for products to market to that client base?
I don't' see anything mythical or magical there.
That's kind of a commercial point of view. Which.... the whole industry (I hate that term! I hate it I hate it I hate it) has more-and-more these days. But fashion just isn't another damn product.
PYPI FASHION wrote: Depends on the context and subject matter. Few subjects on MM are that academic. If you're sitting in a bar talking about beer and one person gives you opinions about 5 beers while another claims beer is best consumed after sitting out in room temperature for a week, you don't need to know the credentials of either to know which one is being stupid.
Yes, but shouldn't I question the person about their background when they say they are a beer expert? Or should I just take them at their word and not look into it any further?
Andrew Thomas Designs wrote: I can go move to San Fran, shoot a legit runway show (do they still have them there? your images are old... ), claim I'm in deep touch with the fashion scene, and people should believe that as long as I'm not saying anything wrong?
You can claim anything you like. You will be judged by the accuracy of your statements, not by 20 images in your portfolio.
PYPI FASHION wrote: You can claim anything you like. You will be judged by the accuracy of your statements, not by 20 images in your portfolio.
Yes, but how do we go about judging that accuracy?
Looking at a persons work is just the first step, and a good one. If someone says they are the go-to fashion shooter in a given area, but they don't have any tear sheets and/or recent images on here or their website, doesn't that lead you to think that they are making stuff up?
Yes, but shouldn't I question the person about their background when they say they are a beer expert? Or should I just take them at their word and not look into it any further?
Neither has claimed to be a beer expert. Does that lack of knowledge prevent you from drawing a conclusion?
